Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

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Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by NTaW on Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:24 am

This popped up in another forum I'm a part of as a kind of dispute. Only problem is: I don't actually care about the opinions of people who I'm not gaming with when it comes to solutions to rules issues. While I see this as pretty cut and paste, it revolves around a Deathwing Terminator's ability to take both a thunder hammer and storm shield as well as a cyclone missile launcher. While there was zero issue with this option in the last Codex in that it just says "for every five models in the squad a DWT may take a CML". Now it's a little different, though I feel like it means the same thing. Allow me to explain, given not everyone has the Codex.

In the DWT unit entry, it states:

-any model may replace all of its weapons with:
two lightning claws
thunder hammer and storm shield

-for every five models in the squad, one DWT may take an item from the Terminator Heavy Weapon List

This is where the counter argument starts. Opponents to this idea state that all weapons haven't been swapped where I (and others) read this to mean that all of the weapons that come on the model must be swapped; how/why can/would you swap a weapon you have't upgraded to? Not to mention the sequential order that the upgrade options are always presented in. Next prong of the debate comes from the Terminator Heavy Weapon list and is really the only part worth taking seriously :

A model wearing Terminator armour may replace its storm bolter with one of the following:
-heavy flamer
-plasma cannon
-assault cannon
-cyclone missile launcher1

1 Does not replace the model's storm bolter.

Opponents say that "may replace its storm bolter" overrides the caveat "does not replace the model's storm bolter" whereas I see it as a replacement of the first line. Do you need to have a storm bolter to not swap it for a CML?

Ultimately, my thought process is as follows:

-Terminator squad chosen, model swaps SB and PF for TH/SS
-since there are 5 models in the squad, a weapon may be chosen from the THW list
-CML doesn't require a swapped SB, is the only weapon allowed to be taken

I have no real investment in this aside from yet another model biting the dust, which is par for the course with the new Codex versus my collection anyway. Figure I'll ask it to the group and see what's up though, because this guy is definitely featured in my Deathwing Command Squad to keep them relevant at range.

Whaddaya think Hogtown, am I off my rocker and pining for the good old days when I could take a 75 point one wound model and no one gave a crap?


Last edited by NTaW on Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by SpacePlans on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:45 am

man GW sucks at writing rules.

How do you replace your storm bolter whilst not replacing your storm bolter. It's like a zen poem
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Re: Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by NTaW on Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:14 pm

It sure does seem like their entire argument rests on "you must have a storm bolter to not swap it for another weapon".
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Re: Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by THarcourt on Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:25 am

Thats nuts, as far as I am concerned, as a Deathwing player: TH/SS can take a cyclone, but not any other weapon.
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Re: Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by NTaW on Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:41 pm

Ah, reason. Hilariously it was brought up while I was commenting on a Dark Angel list and the guy whose list it was got all 'hmm, seems fishy to me'. I didn't even question it until he kept arguing that you had to have a SB to have access to the list.

Like I said in my OP though, I only really care about the opinions of the people that I share the table-top with on matters like these.

How could you say no to this guy?!

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Re: Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by THarcourt on Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:42 pm

I cant, I've got 4 of them :p
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Re: Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by NTaW on Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:45 pm

YES! Love it.
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Re: Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by Dr.Cl0ck on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:54 am

No harm, no foul on this one to my mind... I don't think there's anything stopping you from 'selecting' the CML 'first', leaving you with your sb, that is then swapped for TH/SS.

I kind of like the idea of one dude being a super saiyan ranged/melee dude while his bros grumble over his constant gear hoarding.

For serious, though, I'd be using SS guys as tanks vs. AP2 weapons until they saw combat... though having one basic TH/SS guy up front and one in back with the CML seems like a decent plan.

Heck - at least this ain't 2nd when Wolf Guard termies could take assault cannons AND CMLs...

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.
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Re: Deathwing, Hammers, and Missile Launchers

Post by NTaW on Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:42 pm

Oh, how far we've come since 2nd edition....though I can help but feel with the shift to Formations and Decurion-style list building we're getting back to how convoluted it used to be.

This guy's pretty useful at keeping a slow and CC-only unit relevant while they move from target to target or simply get out run (which is definitely a thing against fast armies). Once they've decimated all enemies in their immediate vicinity it's nice to toss a couple missile shots across the board instead of having a 200+ point squad just kick it slingin' darts and chatting about how secure their objective is while battle rages too far away from them to reach.
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